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amcalexa
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| Joined: | Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 07:53 pm |
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Thanks a bunch for everything. I'm sure more questions will soon follow. I checked up on the recording deal too. Indiana is one of 37 states that allow one party consent, which includes me if I'm in the conversation.
Found this too. To me, this sounds like it is against the law to prevent me from copying or attaining a copy of the lease. Nail in the coffin? I will have to wait my 45 days to find out.
Information Maintained by the Office of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency
07/23/2008 06:25:49 PM EDT
IC 5-14-3-3
Right to inspect and copy public agency records; electronic data storage; use of information for commercial purposes; contracts
Sec. 3. (a) Any person may inspect and copy the public records of any public agency during the regular business hours of the agency, except as provided in section 4 of this chapter. A request for inspection or copying must:
(1) identify with reasonable particularity the record being requested; and
(2) be, at the discretion of the agency, in writing on or in a form provided by the agency.
No request may be denied because the person making the request refuses to state the purpose of the request, unless such condition is required by other applicable statute.
(b) A public agency may not deny or interfere with the exercise of the right stated in subsection (a). The public agency shall either:
(1) provide the requested copies to the person making the request; or
(2) allow the person to make copies:
(A) on the agency's equipment; or
(B) on the person's own equipment.
(c) Notwithstanding subsections (a) and (b), a public agency may or may not do the following:
(1) In accordance with a contract described in section 3.5 of this chapter, permit a person to inspect and copy through the use of enhanced access public records containing information owned by or entrusted to the public agency
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LandlordLaura
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| Joined: | Mon Aug 21st, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 07:02 pm |
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Until/unless your Landlord violates your Lease Agreement and/or State/County/City Landlord Tenant Laws, you would not have any reason to take him/her to court, right? The same goes for your Landlord, right? After you have vacated the property you will be required to allow the legally required amount of time to pass in order for your Landlord to provide a disposition of security deposit letter and/or security deposit refund. At that point, if your Landlord made deductions that you do not agree with, you can send a written letter of dispute and try to work out an acceptable resolution.
It is always best to be polite and make a real attempt to work things out with the Landlord before resorting to court. All communication should be in writing, as discussed previously, so that you have proof of what was said and/or agreed to. Provide your Landlord with information to prove your case and ask for the same from your Landlord. As you mentioned earlier, sometimes such written documentation will assist all parties to overcome confusion and/or disagreements.
Court will cost you time, money, stress and, if your Landlord wins a judgement against you, can possibly affect your credit rating well into the future. Don't get me wrong, though, if you have a valid case and can support it with evidence and your Landlord refuses to be reasonable and/or follow the law, then court would be the proper final resource.
Speaking with an experienced Landlord Tenant Attorney can help you determine whether you have a good case against your Landlord. As you noted, it will be best for you to bring all of your evidence and a copy of the Lease for the Attorney's review. An experienced Landlord Tenant Attorney could provide you with legal advice on how to work things out with your Landlord.
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amcalexa
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| Joined: | Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 06:17 pm |
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Yes. Once we said we had proof they left us alone on the payments. The website you listed I actually checked out just before I found this website.
Another question/s: Should we challenge them to small claims now or after the full inspection and itemized list of repairs. Should we force them to sue us for the money by refusing to pay outstanding charges? If we do challenge them to small claims and they don't show up would we win by default?
I do have a couple attornys that the home inspection lady told us to contact. I will get all the paperwork together and take advantage of my first free consultation.
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LandlordLaura
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| Joined: | Mon Aug 21st, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 01:53 pm |
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The best thing that you can do is read through the Landlord Tenant Laws for the State/County/City where the rental property is located and be sure you are familiar with them. The Laws are to be followed by all parties to the Lease.
You mentioned that you are a university student. If the property that you live is considered to be a part of the university, ie. "university housing", the general Landlord Tenant Laws may not apply to you. Check the Laws about that.
Out of curiosity, I did find the following additional information online which could be of interest to you if the property is in the city of West Lafayette, IN: http://www.city.west-lafayette.in.us/community/renting.html.
If so, You could attempt to verify whether the the property was properly inspected and/or certified as rental housing as required by the City.
In general, verbal conversations and e-mail are considered to be "hearsay" in court. Written documentation, written communication, witnesses (not witness statements, but acutal witnesses), photos and/or videotaped evidence will be your best evidence. You may benefit by speaking with an experienced Landlord Tenant Attorney who practices law in the same area that your rental property is located. Such an Attorney would be able to advise you based on local court decisions that have been made.
Were you and your roommate able to get to the bottom of the security deposit and rent payments you made? Did you get receipts from the Landlord when you made deposits and when you paid rent?
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amcalexa
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| Joined: | Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 10:05 am |
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I'm from Indiana going to school at Purdue. The reason why I said we are on bad terms with the LL is that he accused me of not paying my security deposit 5 months after I signed the lease. He also tried to charge my roommate $3000 in late fees because they lost a check and didn't tell him for 3 months (to rack up fees).
Our home inspector was called in because our LL failed to respond to our complaints. The door was already "repaired" by this time but we did have water damages occuring in our bathroom (water was leaking behind the tub and coming up underneith of the tiles). We also had them repair our sink in the kitchen (which they failed to caulk). All this along with a flooding basement due to squirrels caching walnuts in the drain. Our home inspector said this management has issues with them often and that we have a good case if we need to go to court.
We have taken probably a hundred pics of the house in the last few days. Pics that include damages from improper maintanance from the past several years. 50 of these pics are of wood rotting on the house (porch, door frames, windows).
We have not had a move out inspection. Quite honestly, I don't think they have ever shown up at the house to do anything but show it.
We are currently recieving papers from our neighbor who filed a complaint on the condition of the house a few years ago. Our other neighbor said that they would support the fact that we were "good neighbors" (would a letter work or do they need to show up in court?).
The LL claims that the door was our responsibility. We just replaced my roommates door, which was damaged (roommate locked himself out of his room). They claim the back door had to be repaired twice, which is wrong. We the front door repaired because it wouldn't close properly (was attached squarely) and the back door had a hole rotted through it. We actually have a pic of a birds nest that was built next to the door inside the house.
The lease copy itself was denied to me because of the court obligations. He made no offer for me to purchase a lease. The tape also has a lot of "he said" stuff refering to his partner. It really shows a miscommunication between the LL and his partner.
Also, the e-mails have date and time on them. Should I make a video accessing the "sent mail" folder to show that it is in chronological order?
Thanks a bunch already!
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LandlordLaura
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 05:03 am |
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In my opinion re: your request for a copy of the Lease, write the Landlord a polite letter requesting a copy of the Lease Agreement within a reasonable time frame, ie. 3 business days. If you think it will help (and as OH landlord was mentioning), you could offer to reimburse the Landlord for his/her cost(s) in making the copy and mailing it to you. Ask him/her to supply you with a receipt for the expenses involved and explain that you will be happy to send a check for reimbursement. Keep a copy of your request letter for your records and mail the letter to your Landlord by Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested so that you have proof that the letter was mailed and when the Landlord received it. If necessary, this will prove to a Judge that you honestly requested a copy of the Lease Agreement, leaving the Landlord to explain why he/she did not supply you with the Lease copy you requested. Personally, I do not think it would look good for the Landlord to refuse you a copy of the Lease.
As OH landlord posted, all repair requests should have been provided to the Landlord in writing and delivered by CMRRR so that you would have proof of the repair request(s) and the Landlord's response(s) to your request(s). I am confused by your post because you stated, "Our landlord decided to charge us $550 for our back door to be repaired. We have 3 e-mails dating back to 7months before the doors repair asking our landlord to replace the rotting door." What proof does the Landlord have or what reason(s) have you been given as to why the door repair(s) is/are your responsibility? If the Landlord has not asked for the reimbursement in writing, get his/her request in writing for clarification.
You said that you are on bad terms with your Landlord already. Why? Have you followed the terms of your Lease Agreement? Are you saying that you are moving solely due to the Landlord's attempts to be reimbursed for the door repair costs? Did you and your roommates provide the Landlord with a proper (written) move-out notification as necessary to successfully complete your Lease Agreement or are you breaking the Lease before the actual expiration date?
You also stated, "We actually had to have a home inspector come in before any repairs (aside from the door) were made." What does that mean? Has the Landlord provided you with a move-out inspection already? What was your intent in having a "home inspector" provide you with estimates for repairs that needed to be completed? What items did the home inspector look at?
Please provide more information...
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OH landlord
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 02:18 am |
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Never ask a police officer about law. They only make arrests based on what they have been instructed on. Their whole knowledge of law is a few weeks of courses in police academy. They do not know the nuances of the law. Always vet legal questions through an attorney (who was trained for years in law). In many states, it is illegal to tape record someone without their knowledge. That is why you get that message on every company's waiting line (Your call may be recorded... ) In some states you cannot tape record someone without their knowledge and consent, and you could not use this recording in court. Please post your state for more information on the legality of recording conversations. Even if it is legal to tape conversations without the other party's knowledge, this probably will be of no help to you. (*See the paragraph below.)
*Whether he needs to provide another copy of the lease is up to your state law. Since you signed the lease together (as one entity) and he provided a copy to you (as an entity), he may have no obligation to replace your lost copy for free. He already met his obligation by giving your group a copy of the lease. Not his fault if your roommate lost it. Most states don't require that he provide a copy for each roommate, just a copy to the signers. You are free to make as many copies of that one as you like. Now that this is going to court, don't expect him to volunteer anything. You may have to ask for a copy in court.
E-mails are also usually not admissible in many courts. It is too easy to fake a print out of an e-mail. (Any publishing program can make a fake one in minutes.) The only way to get these admitted is to contact your service provider and get a copy of your message records. Those show dates, times, and who you sent messages to (but not usually the message itself). Some judges will allow them with this kind of documentation, but many still won't allow them as evidence.
Didn't you do a written request to repair the door? You know, the old fashioned way, sent through snail mail with receipt confirmation or certified mail RRR? This is how all repair requests should be made except for emergency repairs (then you should follow up with this). The reason is just what you're experiencing now - you can't prove you asked him to repair otherwise. Verbal conversations and e-mails are pretty much useless in court. Was the condition of this door listed on your move in inspection sheet? You may want to get a copy of the repair receipt and contact the contractor who installed the door (so you can get a statement that it had to be repaired due to rot and not your negligence). Ask the LL for a copy of this receipt in order to get the contractor's name and number. If he believes you want to pay it, he may provide one. Do you have any proof of the door's condition?
As I see it, you have a fight on your hands for your deposit. You will have to prove the door's condition to get that repair removed from your deductions. Your e-mails may not be permitted. The recordings, if legal, are probably no help to you since he already provided the tenants with a copy. Gather as much evidence as you can about the door. Was it shown on the inspection you had? Were any dated pictures taken of it? Do you have any impartial witnesses (not relatives or friends) that would testify about it's condition? A delivery person, a mover, the mail carrier? Anyone who may have seen it but would have no reason to lie for your in court. (Not saying they are lying, but that's what the LL will say.) Get any evidence you can to show it's condition before you moved out.
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amcalexa
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| Joined: | Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 10:26 pm |
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My roommates and I are moving out. Our landlord decided to charge us $550 for our back door to be repaired. We have 3 e-mails dating back to 7months before the doors repair asking our landlord to replace the rotting door. As a result of a hole being rotted through the door, we had an electric bill for $300 in November 2007. The landlord gave one copy of the lease to my roommate... who lost it. Are we not entitled to all have the right to a copy of the lease?
With this being said, the house is in terrible condition. We actually had to have a home inspector come in before any repairs (aside from the door) were made.
Being on bad terms already, the landlord got into an arguement with my roommate on the charges.
I went in today to talk to the landlord to ask for a copy of the lease. He told me to contact his partner who holds the leases and that one would be faxed to him to give to me. I called his partner, named Troy, and as soon as I told him my address he refused to give me a copy of the lease. His excuse was that he gave us (the 3 of us) a copy of the lease and that since we were going to court that he would not give me a copy. I kept my cool with him and told him that I am not my roommate and that I would like a copy of my lease. He replied "No".
Is this legal? I didn't think he was allowed to withhold my own lease from me, especially since I didn't personally recieve a copy of my own.
I have both my landlords conversation (permitting me a copy of the lease) and his partner's (Troy) declination to give me a lease on audio recording. I talked to the cops before I did this to ensure that it was indeed legal to record my conversation with the landlord without them knowing.
So my ultimate question: Are they allowed to decline me a copy of my own lease if I was not personally given a lease copy to begin with?
Can I use this tape in court to try to get our security deposit back?
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